MHU’s blog series, Conversations with a Counselor, features the new counselors joining the Counseling Center this year! Throughout the term, MHU officers will be sitting down with the new counselors to discuss everything mental health, from personal anecdotes to tips and advice.
This week, counselor Paris Palmer, MSSW, sat down with Amanda Chen ‘21 to talk about support systems, giving yourself grace, and exploring mental health. At Dartmouth, she provides counseling for undergraduate and graduate students, and has interests in anxiety, depression, multicultural issues, mindfulness, suicide prevention, and substance abuse.
**Comments from Amanda are denoted with an A and comments from Paris Palmer are denoted with a P.**
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A: So the first question is: what are your name and pronouns?
P: Yes, so my name is Paris Palmer and my pronouns are she/her/hers.
A: Just kind of a fun question: is your glass half full or half empty?
P: I believe I’m…honestly half empty. I like to be realistic when considering what my options look like, but also in the moments where I find myself wanting to drink what’s left, enjoying those moments. So, still finding that positivity and that fullness.
A: I love that. Very realistic. What do you think is important for maintaining good mental health?
P: Ooh. I would definitely have to say support. With a solid and healthy support system, achieving goals and accomplishing things and maintaining positive mental health is just easier – I would definitely start with that. Compassion is also important, and in particular self-compassion, because sometimes we can be pretty hard on ourselves. Just giving ourselves that space to learn, to navigate, to move, and do that trial-and-error. But I’m also one that likes rewards, and so being able to reward ourselves when we overcome something difficult or something that may have caused us to pause, I think is extremely important as we go through life, and overall is good for our mental health.
A: Yeah, I feel like there’s a lot to unpack there. So when we’re talking about a support system, what in your mind is kind of the basics of a support system? I feel like students hear that a lot, but they don’t always really know what that entails.
P: Absolutely. So I like to think of my own experiences with support and realize that it’s not just a family or a friend. It is usually someone that you might cross paths with in your life and it’d be something unexpected. I’ve had that experience and that support would look like professors that I’ve had throughout undergraduate and graduate careers, a former junior ROTC instructor that I had in high school, a Spanish instructor I had in school – these were people that came across with this goal of “hey I’m here to teach you this” or “I’m here to give you this experience” but they were able to give more when I needed it, as it related to those respective roles. That’s why we say when it comes to support, it’s not just limited to the immediate people in our lives. Sometimes it’s looking at who else I can connect with and what can they help me with.
A: It’s kind of like you have different people for different forms of support.
P: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it’s also really good to know, when we go about looking at receiving support and even when we give it, [that] sometimes it’s not necessarily just for all of these different roles. Sometimes it’s just “hey, it’s in this capacity and this is what I need” and being able to receive that for what it is.
A: I really like that. So when you’re talking about self-compassion, it’s again another term that students hear a lot, but we don’t necessarily know how to apply that in our day-to-day lives. I was wondering if you could provide some examples or some guiding principles that you have for that?
P: Absolutely. I like to think of self-compassion as giving ourselves grace, you know? [Sometimes things don’t go as planned] and that’s okay. Try not to make it into this experience where negative self-talk comes up or we become these critics on ourselves. I know when it came to academics for me – and this might be something other students experience as well – when we don’t meet our own expectations or the expectation that we’re trying to fill just based on our own experiences, it can get very overwhelming and very discouraging. And so having space to say “you know what? I didn’t meet it and that’s okay. Here’s what I can do next” and start looking at the opportunity to give yourself space to do the next right thing for you.
A: Yeah, I sometimes feel that Dartmouth students are their own worst critics, so it’s interesting to flip that and say like “okay, well how can you make your life livable with self-compassion and not beat yourself up all the time?”
P: Yeah, for sure. And I think with self-compassion, there’s just that huge piece of acceptance. Being able to say, “I accept this and now I’m ready for the next thing”, “what’s the next right thing for me”, or “what’s the next possible thing I can do”, either to make a change in this situation or to approach it differently.
A: I like that. I guess on the flip side of my original question, which was “what do you think is essential for maintaining good mental health?”, what is a common mistake that people make that negatively impacts their mental health?
P: I kinda touched on it just a little bit in our last question, but I believe being such a harsh self-critic when we’re analyzing or looking at the things that we’ve done and if it could’ve been done differently or not at all. Sometimes that’s a common thing that we probably do every day, even in the smallest of tasks, that can negatively impact our mental health. I can give an example: I got a speeding ticket just a few days ago, and I was sitting there, and the thought started coming, “Oh Paris, you know better. You could’ve done something to prevent it from happening”. All these negative things started to come up and it was one of those things that started to change my mood and how I was ready to approach the rest of my day. But quickly I was able to come to my senses, like “Okay, it is what it is. I am responsible for it.” The right thing that I can do is to follow the speed limit, and if that’s putting on the cruise control just to make sure I don’t speed too much, then I’ll do what I gotta do.
A: Oh my god, I think the students would be so thrilled to hear that you got a speeding ticket. It’s so normal.
P: Yeah. I didn’t think it would happen as fast, since I’m very new to Dartmouth, but, you know, it is what it is.
A: It’d be like, “This counselor, I feel like I can really relate to her.”
P: Yeah.
A: So the next question: why are you passionate about mental health?
P: So my passion came out of a multitude of factors. I wasn’t as successful with the engineering major that I was in. I got three years into it and realized the work I was putting in to understand something that was coming more naturally to my peers – it was consuming me. But I was also curious about some of the other organizations and clubs I participated in, and it was more of a social piece and understanding more about how we work together. So that passion came there, but it was also influenced from the lack of knowing within my cultural background. We didn’t really talk about mental health within my family, and when we did, it was very subtle, and not necessarily in the terms I would use now as a clinician. Some of the things I would hear growing up would be like, “Oh, my nerves are bad” when a family member was talking about things. In my family, you don’t share outside the family and the household any of your business. And meanwhile, sometimes having that third person who has no way of tying you to your family is just a really good relief to get that information out. [My passion for mental health is] very tied into the lack of it in the beginning for me, a career I was trying to force, and realizing that mental health is a vocation for me.
A: I have talked to some people who are more reluctant to talk about mental health because sometimes it pertains to their family. They also grew up under the similar mindset of “don’t air your dirty laundry” or “keep everything within the family”. I guess since you’ve gone through a similar experience, I’m wondering what you would say specifically to those students?
P: One of the things I would definitely start by saying is that if you’re willing to be curious about what it’s like to get it off your chest, to explore that with one of us at the Counseling Center or a trusted professional, and see how you feel. If you want to try [to] get relief or get an experience that you didn’t expect, or you’re even open to wanting to try it again, then do that and really explore what that’s like for you. It was honestly how I got involved – seeing a counselor, and it was like “oh, I didn’t realize this was actually what it was about!” There was so much stigma and ignorance around it because we didn’t talk about it. I really think if an individual is curious, just try it out. And if it’s something you don’t like, then we find another way for you to get the messages and the positive mental health addressed in other ways.
A: Yeah, I appreciate that. I think you are our “newest” counselor – you joined us in December?
P: Yes.
A: So I have the privilege of asking you slightly different questions than what has been asked of people who have been with us since September, but what are you looking forward to at Dartmouth?
P: Oh, there’s so many things. So far, explore a little bit of the winter community and what that includes outside of a pandemic. The winter sports – I’ve never been snowshoeing or skiing or snowboarding, so that’s definitely something [I want to try]. I’m very curious about the sense of community, and I’ve noticed a strong presence within the virtual setting. So I’m really excited and looking forward to seeing what that’s like in-person. Learning more about the tradition and how I can be a part of someone else’s experience better.
A: I’m just curious, what have you noticed in the virtual community?
P: So with many of the meetings that I’ve had so far, learning about different departments, my own department, trainings, and opportunities, people are willing to ask questions. Sometimes the tough questions. I really appreciate that. I’ve found that there is a lot of staff and faculty interested in finding out “what do I need to do better?” I’ve seen students lead initiatives, like this one, meeting with me. I’ve seen opportunities where I could learn in a capacity where I might not have had any experience before but learning from a student on how I can be a better clinician, how I can be a better ally, and all of these different things. It’s very much student-led, and I’m here to listen and answer however I can.
A: Yeah, it’ll be exciting when we’re not in a pandemic anymore. I’m definitely going to miss Dartmouth. When you go eat at FOCO and you just bump into everyone, the community is just always there.
P: I’m really looking forward to that, and walking in different buildings, because I’ve only been inside Dick’s House and that’s it.
A: Yeah! I’m excited for you to do warm cuts, like go through the buildings when it’s really cold, because it’s slightly warmer that way. I remember sometimes at FOCO I would literally bump into people at the Wellness Center, like they would have their own little luncheon, and I would stop by and say hi. We’re all stuck in the same place, so we all really learn to enjoy each other’s company.
P: Yeah, that’s awesome.
A: You kind of were touching on this, but are there any specific mental health initiatives that you’d like to participate in?
P: I would definitely like to say destigmatizing the conversation about mental health. Whether it be anxiety, depression, suicide, abuse, whatever it takes to get that information out there, and for someone to feel that they’re not alone if they’re dealing with something along those lines. I definitely want to provide that outreach and support or help coordinate an event and get them the information they need to move forward.
A: Did you have any initiatives that you worked on in your previous jobs that you would like to see done at Dartmouth or you would like to contribute to at Dartmouth?
P: I’m still learning about a lot of the initiatives going on from the Counseling end for me. But I would definitely like to see how I can collaborate or even be a part of groups that might have a focus on addressing different barriers within the student population. If that is talking more about substance use and abuse and realizing at what point is it dependent and at what point is it recreation use. Whatever it takes to get that started. There are still a lot of things that I’m still learning, trying to find out “oh there’s this organization” or this department, so I’m taking all of that in. Once I know enough, definitely getting involved in those departments or starting more of a group where we can address certain concerns.
A: I feel like this question should’ve come earlier in the interview, but you were talking about how you are not used to the weather, so can you give a bit of a geographical history – so you were in Tennessee for how long and did you ever make it to the snowy regions?
P: Yes, so I’m actually from Detroit, Michigan, and I’ve lived there through high school. I finished my last year of high school in Knoxville, Tennessee. Then I stayed in East Tennessee to get my undergraduate degree from a small school called Maryville College, and I went to the University of Tennessee in Knoxville for my Master’s degree. Those are the two places I’ve been for most of my life. The South, a dusting of snow, they close everything down, so to be here – and right now there’s probably a foot of snow – it’s completely different. Going to start my car in the morning wasn’t something I really had to think about before, but now I do. So it’s a good learning experience.
A: I’ve been in California my whole life and I didn’t have to drive at Dartmouth, so if I end up on the East Coast, I’m gonna have to learn all this stuff. How to drive in the snow – I’m honestly a little scared! But kudos to you for taking that into stride.
P: Oh thank you, thank you. Little by little.
A: I know. Thankfully it’s the pandemic right now, in a way, so you don’t have to drive as much as you would’ve before.
P: Oh yeah, so that’s been helpful.
A: Final question: is there anything you’d like to tell Dartmouth students?
P: I definitely want to let Dartmouth students know that I’m excited to be here, and that I’m here to address any and all [of the issues] I can. I’m still learning, so this is definitely a time for me to hear more about your experiences and how we can make change, how we can have this be the best outcome you want it to be, and what it needs to be for you. Please feel free to reach out and share your story. I’d love to hear it.
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Learn more about the Counseling Center and counselors here: https://students.dartmouth.edu/health-service/counseling/about/counseling-center-staff
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Thank you to Dakota Ma ‘22 for transcribing this interview.
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